I’m feeling so conflicted about this. I guess my question is, then what? I do agree that men are also complex beings, but you don’t typically see men doing the work to have more secure attachments and address their own struggles with intimacy. Women are often willing to do that work, are the men? I think many women stay in unhappy relationships because “he’s just not good at communicating” or “he struggles with intimacy” and then are left unfulfilled because the man doesn’t take on the emotional work. Perhaps I’m missing something here but that was my initial takeaway. I look forward to reading more comments and receiving any feedback.
Honestly you're right. I did tell my friend (Catie) that intention was different from putting in the work. She was hurt because she didn't feel he was into her. I told her that, knowing him, that he DID want to be in a relationship with her. That he did desire her. He did want to partner with her. But it seems he lacks the tools. And she had to talk to him and ask if he was willing to do the work to be vulnerable, to create that intimacy. Because it's hard. If he IS willing, then great. But if he's not putting in the effort than she can't keep throwing her energy into a black hole
I guess when I hear the phrase “if he wanted to, he would” I apply it to a man’s willingness to work through whatever struggles come up vs. he just doesn’t care about you. To me, it’s a reminder that getting a man to deal with his own emotional/relational roadblocks isn’t the work of his partner. I’m 12 years in my relationship so tbh I can’t speak for the current dating scene and how I’d apply this messaging. I’m glad your friend is noticing this early and hopefully will get the clarity she needs in this relationship!
You're right again. And, full disclosure- I have a fever and I'm a big foggy-headed today. But I guess what I meant is that sometimes a man "wants" to, but that doesn't mean he has the emotional tools or emotional intelligence to actually do that hard work. And, speaking as a guy, I know a lot of men who don't even REALIZE that they don't have the emotional tools for intimacy. And it does take some courage to admit that you don't know how to negotiate things and you need some help. If guys are able to get to that place, then I think they might be worth working with. If they aren't, then the woman can't get him to see what he won't.
I agree with what you’re saying. It’s why these convos are so important - to create more of that awareness. I strongly believe that when people in a relationship do that internal work it can really benefit themselves and each other and I just want everyone to flourish! Take care and feel better!
Liz, this is brilliant and true. Currently talking to a friend who moved in with a guy 3 months ago and she's saying how he doesn't seem connected with her anymore. I told her that I fully believe that he wants to be in a relationship but doesn't know HOW. And I think that should be discussed more. People's desires and their abilities are two different things. In relationships as well. We can't suppose that men have all the answers and then decide if they want to apply these answers to a women in a relationship. That's sexist and false. People do their best. They flail. Sometimes it's enough. Sometimes it's not
I would want to know if the man she is with, is working on becoming secure and encourage my friend to be patient if he is, and make sure she is not personalizing his stuff. it's actually a good exercise for women to depersonalize male behavior overall. i would encourage her to ask questions rather than assume. women often assign intentions to men and they're not always right, which just makes for a lot of unnecessary suffering. i think every situation is different and I just want women to be able to flourish and exist in her relationship rather than take blanket advice that might not apply to her!
Thanks for your reply! I hear what you’re saying now. I do find the message to be empowering and a reminder that women aren’t responsible for men’s actions (or inaction), but I see now that for me this applies after you’ve communicated about what’s going on. Both people deserve the opportunity to reflect and be honest and vulnerable about what they want or need and if they’re willing to get there. I know how easy it is to create narratives in our head based solely off assumptions, so now I see that’s what your post is referring to. This seemed to resonate with a lot of men so hopefully this insight can open the door to better conversations and more understanding!
This is amazing, especially highlighting the avoidant attachment behaviour. So many of us can’t easily articulate why we seem to get in our own way when it comes to really getting to know someone. Thank you for this.
and the truth that many don't want to admit is that the women seeking relationships with avoidant men, are avoidant too! they are going for men who are unavailable because they themselves are...it's a hard pill to swallow but putting the attention back on yourself rather than him will help women rather than keep them in a cycle of discontent.
100%. No shame. I do think it’s partially our culture, and how we want both to be uninterrupted when we’re out AND we want a “meet cute” at the same time.
I hope that people find more places to connect, so that they can find people they find safe enough and attractive enough to have sexual experiences with.
I’m feeling so conflicted about this. I guess my question is, then what? I do agree that men are also complex beings, but you don’t typically see men doing the work to have more secure attachments and address their own struggles with intimacy. Women are often willing to do that work, are the men? I think many women stay in unhappy relationships because “he’s just not good at communicating” or “he struggles with intimacy” and then are left unfulfilled because the man doesn’t take on the emotional work. Perhaps I’m missing something here but that was my initial takeaway. I look forward to reading more comments and receiving any feedback.
Honestly you're right. I did tell my friend (Catie) that intention was different from putting in the work. She was hurt because she didn't feel he was into her. I told her that, knowing him, that he DID want to be in a relationship with her. That he did desire her. He did want to partner with her. But it seems he lacks the tools. And she had to talk to him and ask if he was willing to do the work to be vulnerable, to create that intimacy. Because it's hard. If he IS willing, then great. But if he's not putting in the effort than she can't keep throwing her energy into a black hole
I guess when I hear the phrase “if he wanted to, he would” I apply it to a man’s willingness to work through whatever struggles come up vs. he just doesn’t care about you. To me, it’s a reminder that getting a man to deal with his own emotional/relational roadblocks isn’t the work of his partner. I’m 12 years in my relationship so tbh I can’t speak for the current dating scene and how I’d apply this messaging. I’m glad your friend is noticing this early and hopefully will get the clarity she needs in this relationship!
You're right again. And, full disclosure- I have a fever and I'm a big foggy-headed today. But I guess what I meant is that sometimes a man "wants" to, but that doesn't mean he has the emotional tools or emotional intelligence to actually do that hard work. And, speaking as a guy, I know a lot of men who don't even REALIZE that they don't have the emotional tools for intimacy. And it does take some courage to admit that you don't know how to negotiate things and you need some help. If guys are able to get to that place, then I think they might be worth working with. If they aren't, then the woman can't get him to see what he won't.
I agree with what you’re saying. It’s why these convos are so important - to create more of that awareness. I strongly believe that when people in a relationship do that internal work it can really benefit themselves and each other and I just want everyone to flourish! Take care and feel better!
Liz, this is brilliant and true. Currently talking to a friend who moved in with a guy 3 months ago and she's saying how he doesn't seem connected with her anymore. I told her that I fully believe that he wants to be in a relationship but doesn't know HOW. And I think that should be discussed more. People's desires and their abilities are two different things. In relationships as well. We can't suppose that men have all the answers and then decide if they want to apply these answers to a women in a relationship. That's sexist and false. People do their best. They flail. Sometimes it's enough. Sometimes it's not
yes! our own actions don’t always align with our goals so why do we expect other people’s!?
I agree with you that many men struggle with the HOW to be in a fulfilling relationship. What is your advice to your friend in this situation?
I would want to know if the man she is with, is working on becoming secure and encourage my friend to be patient if he is, and make sure she is not personalizing his stuff. it's actually a good exercise for women to depersonalize male behavior overall. i would encourage her to ask questions rather than assume. women often assign intentions to men and they're not always right, which just makes for a lot of unnecessary suffering. i think every situation is different and I just want women to be able to flourish and exist in her relationship rather than take blanket advice that might not apply to her!
Thanks for your reply! I hear what you’re saying now. I do find the message to be empowering and a reminder that women aren’t responsible for men’s actions (or inaction), but I see now that for me this applies after you’ve communicated about what’s going on. Both people deserve the opportunity to reflect and be honest and vulnerable about what they want or need and if they’re willing to get there. I know how easy it is to create narratives in our head based solely off assumptions, so now I see that’s what your post is referring to. This seemed to resonate with a lot of men so hopefully this insight can open the door to better conversations and more understanding!
This is amazing, especially highlighting the avoidant attachment behaviour. So many of us can’t easily articulate why we seem to get in our own way when it comes to really getting to know someone. Thank you for this.
and the truth that many don't want to admit is that the women seeking relationships with avoidant men, are avoidant too! they are going for men who are unavailable because they themselves are...it's a hard pill to swallow but putting the attention back on yourself rather than him will help women rather than keep them in a cycle of discontent.
Amen
I was *shocked* when talking with friends at the end of 2023 with how most of them had not had sex the ENTIRE YEAR (or MULTIPLE years).
i find myself shocked too! it’s tricky because we don’t want to shame anyone but it’s disconcerting!!
100%. No shame. I do think it’s partially our culture, and how we want both to be uninterrupted when we’re out AND we want a “meet cute” at the same time.
I hope that people find more places to connect, so that they can find people they find safe enough and attractive enough to have sexual experiences with.