the girlboss is out: the lazy girl is in
how one generation is redefining success for all of us
Dear fabulous readers,
This month, we're thrilled to present an exclusive interview with the remarkable Samhita Mukhopadhyay, author of the thought-provoking new book The Myth of Making It. Have you ever felt the relentless pressure to ascend the corporate ladder, only to question if the hustle narrative truly serves us? Samitha has navigated this terrain and is here to share her enlightening insights.
In her compelling book, Samitha delves into her own ambitious journey to the top, uncovering the profound costs associated with the pursuit of power. She artfully critiques the notion that professional success equates to personal freedom, revealing the often-overlooked impact on mental health and well-being.
As we transition from the "girlboss" era to embracing the "lazy girl job" mindset, feminism is in a state of flux, leaving many women questioning how to define their roles and aspirations. This transitional period is both liberating and confusing, as we navigate new paradigms of success and fulfillment.
Join us as we engage in a captivating conversation with Samitha about her experiences, the epiphanies that shaped her perspective, and her bold challenge to the conventional definitions of success. This intellectually stimulating yet refreshingly candid discussion is one you won't want to miss.
Let's get into it!
LP: For a long time the gnawing question that feminists were asking was "can women have it all" but in your book, you make a hard pivot away from that query to ask a far better one, which is "do women have enough?" What do you think the impact has been on women… to constantly feel like we're supposed to reach an apex of performance of womanhood that is out of reach for most of us?
SM: The myth of "having it all," I believe, has made women consistently feel inadequate in their lives, whether it be that they are not a good enough caretaker/mother or colleague or boss. We are force-fed this message that we can "have it all," but no one ever talks about how if you have it all, you must do it all, and to feel successful, you have to do it all well. But most people can't do it all— regardless of their gender; it's a charade that has been used to keep women feeling isolated, lonely, and burned out and has led to many of us internalizing the idea that we are not good enough. There is new research that suggests that convincing women that they alone should be able to overcome any hurdle they face in being successful at whatever they do actually disincentivizes them from working together to overcome what are often systemic failings.
LP: Your book comes out at an interesting time, when the term "girlboss" has gone from being the highest compliment to becoming a legit slur... Being a hustler is cringe, while having a "lazy girl job" is now coveted. This timeline really follows your own reckoning with the "myth of making it" and realizing that even once you got to the top, you were miserable. How do you explain this disillusionment with this white corporate feminism, and do you think that the loss of female ambition could unexpectedly be a win for women?
SM: That's a really good question, and it's worth parsing out what's really going on. I think the media is fixated on "lazy girl jobs," but literally, where are the lazy girls in my life? The girlboss is dead; we've had her funeral. I've written about it before and in this book. Even Sophia Amoruso has said we need to move on from it. But despite that declaration and the knowledge that hustle culture is dead—in order to survive in this economy, you still have to hustle and hustle hard. I think many women want a softer life, or maybe they want the lazy girl job, but it's really hard to get one.
But I'm really interested in the second part of your question, and I would also love to know how you feel about it. I think of you as an ambitious person, and I would never want you to be less ambitious because you have done so many great things with that ambition. What I would want for you and ambitious women like you is to get the support you need to realize those ambitions. So, I don't think us not having ambitions would be a win, per see, but I do think the part that could really be a win is for us to recalibrate what our ambition needs to lead to, to reconsider what success looks like, and to be comfortable with a version of it that might not be so self-sacrificing. I'm saying this as someone who is literally refreshing to see my Amazon ranking in real-time (help).
LP: I can definitely relate and I feel like I definitely don’t practice what I preach when it comes to the work-life balance I wish women could enjoy. I think part of the problem is that corporate feminism just maintains hierarchies rather than deconstructing them. In a way, I think it explains why feminism has felt so inefficient as a movement. The goal of the white wealthy women at the top has often been power rather than freedom. And when white women just ask men for power, it leaves those hierarchies intact, making liberation nearly impossible. How can we use the downfall of the “girlboss” to build a stronger feminist coalition with more class and race solidarity?
SM: This analysis of class and workplace structure is exactly right and part of why I wanted to write the book. It felt like just trashing the girlboss was not going to lead us to liberation either. My hope really in the book is that we recognize where we need to make tweaks in our own lives, such as inwardly reflecting on and considering what success is, to a collective one: organizing our workplace, agitating for change, and demanding more, together. We need to do both.
LP: You’re right and I think one of the most frustrating parts of being a woman in patriarchy is that so much feels out of your hands. A lot needs to happen at the policy level that feels out of reach especially with Trump lurking in the background as a potential next president. How can women create small acts of everyday rebellion in their daily lives to reclaim their own freedom and liberation?
SM: One philosopher whose work I draw from to answer this question is the book is the Canadian philosopher Brian Massumi. He has this theory called the "margin of maneuverability," and it's basically the idea of finding optimism in the face of pessimism—identifying the place where you can actually make a difference. Part of why I wanted to write this book is because we constantly toggle between big systemic questions that feel impossible to solve and the more neoliberal feminist narrative that we, alone, can conquer with the right fitness routine and day planner. What is the space in the middle? Maybe it's literally asking yourself what is enough? How much do I actually need? How much do I actually need to do? Maybe it's small acts of protest—refusing to continue to work after certain hours, being off your phone at certain times, refusing to do more work than your male colleagues. Each of us will be different, but one thing we can do ASAP is talk to other people about our experiences and connect across those differences.
LP: I love the "margin of maneuverability," and it reminds me of the “micro-feminist” trend, which we discussed in our community recently, as it encourages us to celebrate the small acts of activism in our daily lives and realize how impactful we are. Okay, the last question that I ask everyone is…what's the last thing that gave you hope?
SM: I'm generally an optimistic person and can find hope in many places but things have felt very hard and challenging lately, in my life and in the world. One thing that has given me a lot of hope is the power of our community—how much people have been showing up for each other. And for me. Thanks for showing up for me, Liz!
LP: Aw shucks! Thank *you* for spending time with us and sharing your inspiring ideas with us!
If you enjoyed our conversation, make sure to go support Samhita’s exciting new book by buying a copy at your local bookstore or wherever you get your books! And please share how hustle culture has impacted you in the comments as it’s a pressure that many of us have felt.
And before we say goodbye, I just wanted to remind you that next Sunday June 30th, we will be having an exclusive live event just for our amazing paid subscribers! Join us for an enlightening session with the incredible Zach Watson, our go-to invisible labor coach. Zach will share his expert tips on improving the balance of domestic and emotional labor in our relationships. Don't miss out on this fantastic opportunity to learn and grow together. If you’re not a subscriber yet, now’s the perfect time to join us! 💖✨
do you want power or freedom?